In this episode of Talking Out Our Assets, JP Cahalan sits down with Chad McClary, Solutions Engineer at XOi, and Ernie Martinez, seasoned field leader at Hunton Services, to unpack what technicians actually need to succeed in today’s environment. The conversation centers on the realities of the jobsite—where access to clear, reliable asset information and the right support can make the difference between wasted time and efficient problem-solving.
Chad brings a technician’s perspective on how AI can accelerate learning and guide troubleshooting, especially for newer techs navigating complex systems. Ernie expands the conversation with a broader view of the trades, emphasizing fulfillment, career growth, and the importance of strong organizational support. Together, they highlight a consistent theme: when technicians have access to better asset data, practical guidance, and the right tools, they work more efficiently, build confidence faster, and deliver stronger outcomes for customers.
Episode 3 Transcript: What do techs actually want?
Chad McClary (00:00)
So I went to tech school for two years. So I should have came out with even more knowledge, but we all know that the human brain can only process and keep so much data, right? So if I’d have had AI back then,
it would have been a game changer. mean, honestly, just the fact that even if it gives you high level things like, hey, if I have a low superheat and, you know, a high sub cooling, what does that mean? I mean, back in school, they gave me a little chart and I’m not even gonna lie. I carry that chart around with me for probably a year just so could have a quick way to look through it. Now with AI, I can literally go in and put that into AI and it will literally tell me, hey, you need to check this, you need to check this, you need to check that, right?
So I think as a green technician and just trying to learn and just trying to understand what’s going on out there, I think it’s an invaluable tool, where the next generation is trying to get is that we want to dive deeper than that,
J.P. Cahalan (00:53)
Hello again, everybody. My name is JP Cahalan. I am your formidable host of talking out our assets, the podcast provided by XOY that gets into all the nitty gritty of all the things that nobody ever wants to talk about. So that’s why we’re here and it’s what we’re doing. I have
Honestly, one of my most trusted people in the business that is riding alongside of me, I’m going to let him introduce himself. He’s going to tell you about his background. Chad comes from a technician background where he has done anything and everything and worked on all different types of equipment. I’ll let him tell you all of that. But the conversation today is going to be picking his brain around what the hell do technicians in this day and age actually want?
And does AI play into that? Does data and all the things that we can do does that play into it? So Chad, I want to let you introduce yourself and tell us all about you and all the things and then we’ll get this thing kicked off and rolling.
Chad McClary (01:49)
Perfect. Thanks, JP. Thanks everybody for listening. My name is Chad McCleary. am a Solutions Engineer here at XOI now, but to JP’s point, prior to that, I actually was in the field. I worked for a manufacturers rep in North Texas for 15 plus years, have over 17 years experience in the field, ⁓ factory certified in over 40 or 50 different manufacturers, anything from geo heat pumps to coin towers to chillers to BRF. mean, pretty much name in the commercial space. I’ve had my hands on it. So good to meet everybody.
J.P. Cahalan (02:20)
Awesome, brother. The background I love, it’s absolutely perfect for the conversation that we’re going to have here. So this is how I generally start things out. When we get into having this conversation, I’m going to get into a bunch of questions that my team wants us to ask. And sometimes we’re going to weave around that. I always start with, AI is a big thing. Like everybody says, let’s AI that. Let’s use AI to do this, blah, blah, blah. I always start with this. How do you, Chad, use AI today? And this could be, lean me professionally. And then if you’re using it personally as well, as long as it’s not something weird,
Let’s hear that.
Chad McClary (02:52)
Yeah, I think AI can be a great tool as long as you actually understand how to use it. Right. think where some people start to get in trouble with AI is they start to rely on it too much and it can spit out some, some funky stuff. Me personally, I use it quite a bit, right. I’ll use it to kind of figure out if I’m even going down the right track, figure out if, you know, what I’m thinking is kind of where we’re at. For the technicians themselves, you know, once again, it’s we talk to people and they’re using it to
Especially your greener guys, they’re using it to kind of give you those high level, hey, what could it be, right? If I’m looking at something and I’m seeing all these different ⁓ issues going on, if I can simply go to AI and type that in and it can kind of give me some areas to start looking at, I think that’s massively helpful. Where it kind of becomes iffy is, do we trust that? And I think that’s kind of where it’s one of those things, right? Depending on which technicians you’re talking to, some guys love it, other guys are kind of like, well,
I’ve been doing this long enough that I know more than AI. But I think as we start using it more, we’re technically training it, right? So if we can actually get to the point that AI can literally help us with everything we do, whether it be trying to figure out exactly what’s going on, figuring out solutions for what’s going on, or even just helping us make a recap of exactly what happened, I think that’s where the power of it lies.
J.P. Cahalan (04:16)
Brother, you said a lot of things there. A lot of great things. lot of things that are on the tip of my brain when I’m kind of thinking about how AI gets utilized, especially with the technicians. So I want to pick in on something right now if you talk about it. You talk about do we trust it? And let’s view this from a younger technician perspective, right? I’m coming to AI, coming to chat with you, and I’m asking, hey, trying to get an assemblance of am I on the right track? In your experience,
and the technicians that you’ve interacted with over the years, especially since AS has come out, like give me a gut reaction on like, how trustworthy is it? Or is this something that is specific to the problem in equipment?
Chad McClary (04:58)
No, mean, so here’s how I look at especially from a green technician, right? AI wasn’t really a thing whenever I was coming up as a green guy, right? So it’s like I had to do a lot of being in the books and talking to the older generation and getting that help and going that route. And I even had a background. I got an associate’s degree out of tech school. So I went to tech school for two years. So I should have came out with even more knowledge, but we all know that the human brain can only process and keep so much data, right? So if I’d have had AI back then,
J.P. Cahalan (05:02)
Uh-huh.
Chad McClary (05:27)
it would have been a game changer. mean, honestly, just the fact that even if it gives you high level things like, hey, if I have a low superheat and, you know, a high sub cooling, what does that mean? I mean, back in school, they gave me a little chart and I’m not even gonna lie. I carry that chart around with me for probably a year just so could have a quick way to look through it. Now with AI, I can literally go in and put that into AI and it will literally tell me, hey, you need to check this, you need to check this, you need to check that, right?
So I think as a green technician and just trying to learn and just trying to understand what’s going on out there, I think it’s an invaluable tool, right? Where it starts to become something where the next generation is trying to get is that we want to dive deeper than that, right? Because at some point you become to the fact that, hey, okay, if it’s this, then I know I need to check this, this and this, which is exactly what AI is going to tell you. Well, your lead tech should have already checked that. So now we’re looking at it going, okay, well,
J.P. Cahalan (06:11)
Okay.
Chad McClary (06:23)
It’s not any of that. what did AI really do to help me there? And once again, you can dive deeper and say, Hey, what else? And you know, who knows what rabbit hole it’s going to go down. So I think that it could be a very, very invaluable tool for, especially the guys that are coming up.
When you talk about wanting to take those, those green texts, and especially the climate change that we’re looking at right now, where you’re having a older generation become the new guys, right? So you have guys that are coming in now and they’re in their,
J.P. Cahalan (06:37)
⁓
Chad McClary (06:50)
mid-20s to early 30s and they’re just now getting into the trades. They came from being an IT director, they came from being something else and they started realizing that, I can make some good money in the trade, so what can I do? We gotta be able to get those guys up to speed really, really quick. How can we do that? Once again, AI could be the answer to that right off the bat.
J.P. Cahalan (07:05)
Mm-hmm.
you gave a very good practical, real example of that. And I know there’s countless others, right? Like, you know, the accessibility to things that, you know, used to be carried around the binder, used to be in the binder in the truck, used to be wherever it is, like, dude, let’s have like, get you that right now. It’s, it’s honestly a transformative thing. I mean, we talked about years ago, people used to take a quarter and put it in a payphone.
and call another technician or support for help. Like dude, that was the outlet. And for anybody listening that was born in like 2000 or after, like a payphone is a thing that used to sit somewhere, you put a quarter in it or 35 cents, and dude, you could call somebody but only for a select period of time. So that transition to get into a mobile phone was groundbreaking. Like I gave you an outlet. It was everything that everybody wanted.
This is that same thing. I’m hearing you rightly. This is the exact same thing. I’m getting you to information. Now here’s my question to you and all that monologue of driving to a place.
I’m fine in trusting known things. Your example, low superheat, high sub-cool equals this, do this. Known things.
At what level of trust should the presentation of data and historical context of data be trusted? And so let me give you an example. Most important thing to any technician, my personal belief is previous history on that piece of equipment. Ideally, I got a bunch of great notes and a bunch of great things. I may or may not. So life is going to be easy or hard depending on how I.
It’s easy to get to that. But do I have the ability and the trust from a technician today to say that piece of equipment looks like these other pieces of equipment in this larger ecosystem that may not even be in your region? And here’s the percentage basis of how often things happen. Should I stress that with AI? And is there a world where technicians are going to?
Chad McClary (09:22)
I mean, honestly, a hundred percent you could, right? I mean, when you start looking at it, are, there’s a reason that service bulletins exist, right? Service bulletins are literally telling you that there’s a known issue with this model series. And that’s exactly what they’ve done, right? They didn’t have the AI model to make it easy. It’s just that those manufacturers started understanding that, Hey, you know what? I started finding out with this, you know, a one, one, three, one model series that we need to go in and change this, or we need to do that.
And that’s kind of exactly what you’re talking about, JP, is the fact that I can start to look at a model series and start to understand that, hey, you know what, we’re finding that that compressor is breaking down in, you know, four to six years. So we don’t necessarily tell the technician that, it’s 100 % that compressor. But if we can start to give them the ideas of, hey, you know what, based upon it being this model series and based upon it being at this age, if I can kind of break down and say, hey, here’s some good examples of things that you may want to look at.
just to give those technicians that nudge, right? Because if I get out there and I get stuck on something, my first thing I’m gonna do is pick up the phone and start making phone calls. Back to your point, right? Who am I making those phone calls to? Am I making those to other technicians who may just be as in the dark as I am? Am I making those to a manufacturer that, you I don’t know, I may end up sitting on hold for a long time and may not ever get the answer. If I can have something that’s just like, hey, you know what, I would check.
J.P. Cahalan (10:29)
Yeah.
Chad McClary (10:47)
These couple of things just based upon it being this asset type or based upon it being this model series or even this manufacturer Now you’re kind of giving me those tools to say okay cool I still have to kind of know what I’m doing to be able to dive into how do I test that and how do I check that? But the fact that you’re giving me prompts That’s something that most technicians already have in their mind like I’m sitting here as we’re having this conversation I’m thinking back to certain models that I worked on and it’s like hey, you know what if I knew I was going out there?
J.P. Cahalan (11:02)
Yeah.
Chad McClary (11:15)
That’s something I’m probably, wanna make sure I have this tool in my truck so that I can make sure I can test that.
J.P. Cahalan (11:19)
Yeah.
You get me thinking all the time. This is such a good conversation. We’ll keep this thing going. So you said something about service bulletins. You said basically that service bulletins. I’ve never thought of it from that way. We’re essentially this ability if we use and when I say AI, you and I are both speaking in the terms of like, we don’t need anything to be generative. We don’t need to generate anything. We just need to aggregate data in the most efficient fashion and feed it to people.
what you’re talking about and what I’m talking about, you mentioned the bulletins were essentially crowdsourcing the type of information that would go into a bulletin, but allowing that to be on a mass scale with every piece of equipment and identify trends that even the OEM doesn’t understand, which is a different level of thinking. And so I very, very much appreciate you talking that out there. ⁓ The other thing that I kind of.
want to dive into as as you we talk about this because I’m in agreements with you like to break it down for everybody that was kind of as Chad was talking this you need the simple version ⁓ Chad described it in a way that is I don’t want to lead you and tell you step by step by step the answer I want to give you information to allow you as a technician to have the autonomy to say I realize it’s between four and six years and it could be this based on what we’re seeing
but I’m still going to make my own decision as a technician. It’s basically like being a doctor and knowing you come in with a fever, you come in with this, you come in with this. Yeah, percent of the time it’s going to be this, but I’m still going to diagnose you. I’m still going to do this. I’m just going to hopefully not be biased with my opinion based on what I know. I hear that from technicians all the time. It’s like, well, depending on what you give me, I may become biased and I may start leaning that direction. Everything I see tells me this. How do technicians navigate?
that world in your opinion in regards to AI and this influx of data and all the things at our fingertips, how do you not become biased in your diagnosis?
Chad McClary (13:21)
I think that’s just going to kind of come back to just time on the job and learning, right? And that’s, that’s to the point that I don’t want to tell you that, Hey, this is exactly what you need to do because we need to have that free will. need to be able to, and that’s one of the things that technicians, a lot of them we have, right? That’s, we don’t want to be sitting behind a desk all day and being told exactly what we need to do. We’re doing the same thing over and over again. Right? One of the reasons that people become technicians is because we like to be free thinking. like to kind of go that route.
With that said, if I can get little nudges just to say, hey, you know what, if you’re kind of stuck, why don’t you start looking this direction, right? Why don’t you start thinking this way just based upon it being this? And I think that’s where we’re at is you understand that, hey, it’s telling me that, back to your point, it’s like, hey, there’s a ⁓ 14 % chance. Well, 14 % doesn’t really sound all that high, but it’s a possibility, right? And so if I’m to a point that, hey, you know what, man, I haven’t seen this, I don’t know anymore.
J.P. Cahalan (14:13)
Mm-hmm.
Chad McClary (14:18)
but I have something that’s giving me that nudge. If you were to do the same thing, like if you were a greener technician, you called me and I’m trying to help you on the phone, I’m not, can’t a hundred percent tell you, hey, this is what it is. Technically what I’m doing is I’m giving you the same thing that AI is giving you, except I’m not telling you it’s 14%. What I’m gonna tell you is, hey man, based upon what you just told me, I would go over here and I would check this, I would check that, I would check that.
So in essence, what we’re doing with AI is we’re making it to where now the lead techs can get back to doing what it is that they love to do, and that’s working on equipment. Not having to be on the phone day in and day out answering those same questions, right? Now, does that say that we don’t need the knowledge from the lead techs? Absolutely not. There’s still going to be times that you’re still going to have to rely on those lead techs to give you more information, to be able to be more specific on that.
J.P. Cahalan (15:00)
Mm-hmm.
Chad McClary (15:07)
specific asset, right? We’ve kind of talked about the asset based upon the make and the manufacturer, but there’s also a lot of history we need on that specific serial number. If I’ve been the one servicing that unit for the last three years and now all of a sudden, JP, you’re out there working on it for the first time. If you don’t have a way to see exactly what I’ve done or you can’t even understand the notes that I put down because maybe I didn’t put good notes. I just said unit was broke, fixed it. And now you’re looking at it going, great chat. I appreciate that information.
J.P. Cahalan (15:16)
Mm-hmm.
you
Chad McClary (15:36)
Your first phone call is going to be me going, dude, man. First of all, I got up here. I’m working on this unit. This is what it’s doing. In my mind, I’ve got the history and it’s all up here in my head. I’m to start going through my Rolodex and say, well, you know what? I replaced that, that, TX valve a year ago and it was kind of doing the same thing. Maybe we need to look there again, you know, that kind of thing. So that’s where it comes into the history of the asset along with the AI comp. I mean, it’s just.
J.P. Cahalan (15:37)
you
Chad McClary (16:06)
Yeah, there’s so many different routes you can go down there.
J.P. Cahalan (16:08)
And that’s where, I I look at, and I use AI, I try and be very specific and deliberate with it, but like being able to the serialized unit-specific information and layer that in with the trending, what we’re calling service bulletin holistic view information, that allows us to get to a place where I think we can start to build trust. I really do. If you’re a technician today,
and you are maybe at a company or you’re coming into the industry just looking for a job. How important for you is an organization’s focus on tools that could do something like that? And I’m not saying it has to exist today. I’m saying like, should as a technician, do you want a roadmap that is like, dude, that’s the most efficient tool we could have?
I want that. want to make sure my company is driving towards that world.
Chad McClary (17:10)
No doubt. mean, when you think about a technician, what we want is we want to have the right tools for the job, right? Whether that be like mechanical tools, whether that be technology, whether that be whatever makes my life easier. That’s what I want to do. Right. You have to remember that technicians were humans, right? We all have wives to get home to. We have kids to get home to. We have dogs that are, we know are sitting in their kennel barking, right? So I want to be as efficient as I possibly can, but at the same time, I want to be that problem solver.
Right? So if I can verify that I have the tools that I need to be as efficient as I can be in my job, if that means that, Hey, now based upon you coming out and telling me that there’s a chance that it’s this, and I checked that and that ends up being the actual problem. And that saved me anywhere from 30 minutes to a couple of hours. Once again, that’s a win-win for not only the business, but for the technicians themselves, right? The business is we want to get our technicians as many jobs as we possibly can, because that’s where we’re making our money.
J.P. Cahalan (17:59)
Hmm.
Chad McClary (18:09)
As technicians, we’re kind of doing the same thing, right? I don’t really want to be stuck on the same job for hours upon hours. And I don’t want to be in the circle of having to call people and then, I finally got you on the phone. Cool, you told me to check this. Let me check that. And then it didn’t work. Now I got to get you back on the phone, right? So if I have all the tools in my hand, if I have all the training in my hands, if I have everything that I need to be as efficient as I can be with my job, that’s what technicians are looking for.
J.P. Cahalan (18:35)
But I freaking love that. In my opinion, again, super biased, because I love you. That is an absolute great answer. to relate it back to guys, and I think this is where a lot of people get lost, right? We start talking about technology and AI, and it starts to scare a lot of the generation that is now ours and beyond. But it’s just a tool.
Like that’s what it is. And sometimes tools need to be refined. Sometimes they’re recalled. Sometimes that’s okay. But like we need to have these things be things that are beneficial and helpful and allow technicians to do what they do best. So gonna wrap up with two final questions. These are a little bit, yeah.
Chad McClary (19:17)
Hold on real quick, I want add
something to JP, right? Like I think the biggest thing that scares technicians with AI is the fact that it kind of goes back to what I was talking about with free will, right? Is that they start to look at that and go, I no longer have free will. And that’s not the case, right? Once again, we’re not talking about AI in a way that’s going to say, hey, you have to go this route. We’re talking about AI to be able to assist you and be able to help make you those decisions. Because once again, that’s what it’s all about. How can we make you more efficient? And that’s how we’re talking.
J.P. Cahalan (19:28)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And thank you for making that a clear statement because I view it the same way. And for the people that are out there listening, all seven of you that may be listening to Chad and I kind of rambled on right now, I’m to put it in context. I do everything in analogies. What I’m hearing you say, Chad, is this. I’m not telling you what play to run as a quarterback. I am giving you all the pre-read information, the pre-snap reads, so you are Peyton Manning.
plus Tom Brady to be able to say, ooh, they’re sitting zone. I got this. I’m going here. That’s what you’re saying. I still have the three wheel and the autonomy to change that play and go where I want to. But I’m just giving you as much information as possible to say the probability is they’re here and this is how you’re going to win.
Chad McClary (20:37)
But you still have that free will right you can still look at that and go get the probability is is that this is gonna work Well the play starts happening and all of a crap what you thought was gonna be there is not the play But you still have that probability so you still had an idea of where to go you kind of had that idea Not saying that’s the decision you have to make But you’re getting you as much information as we possibly can and information is key I can’t say that enough information is king whether it be service history whether it be
J.P. Cahalan (20:40)
Yeah.
Chad McClary (21:06)
data, it’s all king. The more you can give, the better you got.
J.P. Cahalan (21:08)
Love it.
Love it, dude. I’m in complete agreement with you. You mentioned in your years that you’ve run across people that have written good notes and bad notes as previous service history.
Chad McClary (21:13)
⁓
J.P. Cahalan (21:23)
who wrote literally the worst summary notes to where you were always stuck.
Chad McClary (21:30)
Okay. So we had a guy And I mean, great guy, great everything, right? But when it came to the notes, was a lot of, was broke, fixed it. Unit was broke, didn’t fix it. And it’s like, okay.
J.P. Cahalan (21:30)
I am dude, slow up.
Chad McClary (21:49)
Now the flip side of that is that I actually knew what was going on because I was on the phone with that person quite a bit, right? Like I said, great guy, just it it very very much old school didn’t really care for technology, you know that kind of thing, right? So on the flip side of that, ⁓ you know, we had other guys there was a
J.P. Cahalan (21:54)
Yeah.
Chad McClary (22:13)
There was another guy that was called we’ll call him Lance He could actually go in and it was like reading a novel every time you read his note, right? And so it’s like dude, like I’m sitting over there reading them I’m going can we just get to the point like I’m you know Remember back in school when you had like 20 seconds to read a paragraph and you had to answer a bunch of questions about it you’re just kind of skimming you’re looking for those keywords And that’s what I had to do on every one of those because it was just like ⁓ I can’t I can’t go through. I mean, he’s literally like hey
J.P. Cahalan (22:22)
Yeah
Yeah.
That’s so funny.
Chad McClary (22:42)
I took the red wire off of here and put the green wire over there and I’m like, okay, all right, no, no, no, no. We don’t need to get in that much detail. So it’s, it so inconsistent. You know, once again, it’s like, well, you didn’t know as a technician, Hey, do I want to give as little as I can, or do I want to go in as deep as I can? Because you just, you never knew, right? It’s like, well, I don’t really know who’s reading it. I don’t really know that they understand if as technicians, we like to speak. like to call it tech talk.
J.P. Cahalan (22:49)
you
Chad McClary (23:09)
And we think that everybody understands technician language and they don’t, right? So if I get too in depth and I’m over here writing all this stuff for another technician, it’s great. For a business owner that’s going back and looking at it, they’re going, I don’t, I’m sure this sounds good. It’s got a bunch of words in it. So it’s gotta be good, right? That kind of.
J.P. Cahalan (23:30)
Yeah, there’s a fine balance that people have to strike. I love, with what AI is doing, I think, and we’re not going to get into this topic, I know we’re running out of time, the ability to allow people to answer simple questions and get to all the information that is needed, I think is such a critical element of all this because there’s not a single person I know that can’t, I came from a construction and manufacturing world. I can go to school to be an English major and to learn how to write. Like, that’s a delicate balance.
All right, last question. I want to just straight off the top for you. What was your favorite piece of equipment to work on and why?
Chad McClary (24:10)
Oh, man. Let’s see. I’ve worked on a lot. I’d probably say that probably my favorite ended up being VRF. Like whenever I actually got into the VRF side of things, that ended up being my favorite. VRF scares a lot of people, but it really shouldn’t, right? And it’s because there’s a lot of controls in it. There’s a lot of piping. But when you actually just stop and break it down and just think of it as a regular system.
J.P. Cahalan (24:26)
Mm-hmm.
Chad McClary (24:36)
Right. And I tell that to people about all kinds of things, but I can’t tell you how many times people are just like, ⁓ I don’t know. I can’t, I can’t do this. And it’s like, hold on, let me just stop and break this down and let me just kind of come over here and explain what’s going on. And once you stop and explain it, they’re like, ⁓ okay. It’s, it’s not that hard, but I think that’s what I enjoyed the most about it was it was the challenge, right? There’s, there’s a lot more in it, but if you literally just kind of stop and break it down and just think about your normal refrigeration cycle, it’s really not that hard.
J.P. Cahalan (24:48)
Mm-hmm.
Chad McClary (25:06)
The other great thing about VRF is that if it’s installed correctly, stuff runs forever. Like you don’t have any issue with it. The bad thing about VRF is that if it’s not installed correctly, it can be a very, very intense, very, and I’ve got projects that were great projects and I had projects that were not great projects. It kind of went both ways, but yeah, I’d have to say that that VRF ⁓ Mitsubishi and Samsung, both of them were probably my favorite piece of equipment to ever work on.
J.P. Cahalan (25:12)
You
Love that shout out to them too. I was gonna go that hey what was your favorite brand? already hit me there. I have a terrible joke about how VRF sound like marriages is either really good or it’s really bad and it’s gonna draw out forever but we’re not gonna go there. Chad brother, I hope that everybody listened to this and took away exactly what I did which is you you’re obviously a guy you can feel it you’re obviously a guy who cares about the trades you care about the industry you care about
Chad McClary (25:41)
Bye guys.
J.P. Cahalan (26:04)
passing down of information and knowledge and your perspective on what you think people need. I’m in line with it. I agree with it. But it’s ⁓ been joy being able to talk about this with you. I want to bring you back and talk about a different layer of this from a technician perspective. But cannot thank you enough, my friend. You are awesome. And for those of you that are out there, this is another episode of Talking Out Our Assets with myself, Jay Pekahalan.
We’re going to keep driving this bus forward and looking forward to seeing you guys next time.
J.P. Cahalan (26:41)
Now, this is going to be good one because we’re going to ask the question, what do technicians really want? Which I think if you ask this question to 10 different technicians, you would get 10 different answers and that’s the way it should be. But there is a consensus and an underlying thing of like, hey, here’s what they want and here’s what they should have. And that’s why we have
I’m gonna say it out loud. One of my favorite people that I’ve had the pleasure of meeting, we go back to 2016, I think,
is the early days Ernie. ⁓ I got Ernie Martinez with me from the
group. Ernie has an amazing journey and story in regards to the roles and what he’s done in his career. I’m gonna let him introduce himself and then we’re gonna dive in and dig into what attacks I actually want and how do we give them what they need.
So, Arnie, take it away,
Ernesto Martinez (27:32)
JP, thanks for having me, but ⁓ yeah, it’s been a lot of years between us. quit counting. ⁓ They’re that good. My name is ⁓ Ernie Martinez. My friends call me Ernie. I tend to dabble in the HVAC industry and its facets for the last… June is 34 years. So kind of like a lot of people in my age group, we probably fell into it by accident.
And ⁓ my very first job was essentially a chiller plant upgrade at the high school I was attending. Had to knock it out in the summer. So ⁓ learned a lot of things from early on days. That was in 92, I believe. And ⁓ I haven’t stopped since fulfilling technician roles, plant operations, chief engineering, field supervisory, service manager, back to field supervisory and just
Teching and teching all along the way, chill water systems, rooftop package systems, boiler steam, hydronics systems, all the good things that we play in to essentially make outside controllable for inside applications to our control. I’ve done teaching ⁓ at a local ⁓ educational facility here in the mainland, ⁓ in the greater Houston area.
J.P. Cahalan (28:50)
Mm-hmm.
Ernesto Martinez (28:56)
and continue to help in our hunting services organization with implementing our own apprentice program. So that’s kind of fun. ⁓ We still, not just myself, but now an expanded team, really of field supervisors and ⁓ lead technicians having a lot more hands on approach to that, although not our responsibility, just playing more of a
J.P. Cahalan (29:06)
Awesome.
Ernesto Martinez (29:24)
contributor roles to that. So that’s Ernie in a nutshell.
J.P. Cahalan (29:25)
Yeah.
It is a journey that is worth listening to in a long format, I will tell you that. So if anybody gets the chance to cross paths with this guy and or just pick his brain or just get in a room with him in conversation, wealth and knowledge, great individual, glad we have you here. I’m going to go in a couple of different routes. I got some questions I’m going to ask you, but you mentioned the apprentice program. We’re going to dive into that a little bit because I think that’s a unique perspective of getting people that are
Ernesto Martinez (29:48)
Mm-hmm.
J.P. Cahalan (29:55)
you know, early stage to molding and saying, hey, what do they want? What do they need? But as we think about the of the start of this whole thing and the question I want to ask you, when you look at kind of technician retention data, what are the actual drivers in your opinion that keep people in the skilled trades that keep them wanting to further their craft, their education and their knowledge? What are those things?
Ernesto Martinez (30:21)
That’s a interesting question, JP. Going back to what you mentioned earlier at the intro, you asked 10 guys, you’re going to get 10 different answers. And I don’t believe you’re going to get a wrong answer. So my approach that is purely based off of, like I said, that 34 years tenure experience, there’s a lot of contributors, a lot of influences that perhaps have changed
what would be an ideal answer to that across the decades. When we’re looking at ourselves now trying to, as an industry, no secret to anybody, you’ve talked about it and all industries have talked about how do we fill that skills gap in the trades? There’s been about a good two and a half to three decades of damage where we just didn’t backfill in the trades. And we’ve been paying for that for a while now.
⁓ So really, you know, pre that area, people just wanted a solid paycheck. And now it’s not, it’s no longer that way. ⁓ We’re also in a post pandemic world where a lot of those things with the generation that perhaps many don’t understand or can’t relate to have a lot of different desires.
J.P. Cahalan (31:20)
Got it.
Ernesto Martinez (31:34)
What was once a clear paycheck knowing where I was going to go Monday through Friday covering a 40-hour week is it’s not enough. ⁓ And I don’t know that that’s a bad thing. I’m not saying it’s a good thing. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I think it’s just one of those things where you’d be doing yourself some harm if you didn’t recognize that. So some of the things that we see now are really obviously clear pay structures and earning potential. ⁓
J.P. Cahalan (31:35)
Yeah.
Thank
Ernesto Martinez (32:02)
incentives look like, things of that nature. But it goes a little deeper than that. ⁓ think people now, want a lot more fulfillment in what they do. It’s a necessity really for them that they have to have essentially a sense of accomplishment, which is a good thing. ⁓ And people, want respect from their leadership. ⁓ They want minimal micromanagement in their day-to-day.
J.P. Cahalan (32:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Ernesto Martinez (32:31)
⁓
They essentially, when we talk about that gap and essentially the shortage of qualified technicians for those that are having to pull the plow, what they really want is they want a balanced workload and fair dispatching. ⁓ Essentially, ⁓ if there some that are known to be the ox and they pull the plow, ⁓ they’re rewarded by more work.
J.P. Cahalan (32:48)
Mmm.
More… more pulling
Ernesto Martinez (32:59)
And
just more pulling and fatigue tends to get overlooked. And it’s not necessarily an intentional thing, but a lot of what we do is driven by necessity. we’re typically a reactive and everyone wants to try to get ahead of things and be proactive. But when we’re dealing with limited manpower, you’ve got a wide array of skill sets. And for those that just don’t have the skill sets that you need, ⁓
J.P. Cahalan (33:03)
Yeah.
Ernesto Martinez (33:26)
They tend not to be placed in areas where you put your higher priority customers, your critical care facilities and infrastructure that can’t go down. You put that guy who wears the cape and as a result, he winds up getting overworked. So it takes a balance for any organization to have to work out those nuances. That’s not the responsibility of the technician. That’s the responsibility of the organization to work that out.
J.P. Cahalan (33:31)
install.
Ernesto Martinez (33:54)
So with that, those superstars, want proper tools, ⁓ whether they be, know, wrenches in their hands or proper software to how to navigate ⁓ information so they can execute jobs effectively. ⁓ They want a no blame culture. They don’t want a finger pointing ⁓ culture anymore. They want problem solving cultures rather than assigning fault, which is a healthy thing.
J.P. Cahalan (34:18)
interesting.
Ernesto Martinez (34:20)
⁓ And what is really kind of a major driver in the desires of people in trades now is they want a clearly defined path ⁓ for what their career has the potential to become. And they want real time, real world, seeable, visible ⁓ advancement opportunities. That’s kind of what I’ve noticed. if you can tick a lot of those boxes, you’re going to have a lot of technicians that are more likely to stay.
when they feel that they’re supported, when they feel that they’re respected, when they feel that they’re capable and empowered to succeed in their roles, which is kind of my observation.
J.P. Cahalan (34:48)
Yeah.
Dude, you said a couple of things there and I’m going to go off script. mean, you know, my marketing team is like, oh, it only took one question. He’s going somewhere else. That happens. You said fulfillment. They want the fulfillment. When you, if you can remember, dude, you say 34 years, dude, you don’t look like you’ve been there for 34 years. You look great. But the point of the story is like, where was your
first moment of professional fulfillment. Do you remember it?
Ernesto Martinez (35:23)
Ooh, that was a long time ago. I’ll tell you, it wasn’t my first job. I’ll tell you that right now. ⁓ It was a different time. was a different circumstances working for general contractors was a lot tougher. ⁓ People didn’t care about safety protocols. ⁓ A lot of people didn’t even know what the EPA was. It was, it’s been around and they just didn’t, I don’t know what that is, you know, ⁓ you know, they, so.
J.P. Cahalan (35:28)
Okay. Okay.
Ernesto Martinez (35:49)
I can safely say first and second job clearly weren’t it. But I’ll tell you one thing. ⁓ One of my early, early young on years, late teens, maybe early 20s in New York City where I was living and working at the time.
making my very first repair, full diagnostics, all on my own, getting a system up and running. That was a huge deal for me. I’ve never done drugs, so I don’t know what it feels like to be high. But that was high for me. That is the best feeling in the world. And if we can take a moment since we’re off script about, you know, anti-drug use, there’s my pitch.
J.P. Cahalan (36:17)
You
That’s awesome.
Ernesto Martinez (36:28)
I still get the same feeling. After 34 years, I know I’m gonna fix it. I mean, it’s a gift, I’m going to fix it. But even still, knowing I’m gonna fix it when I do, I’m still able to enjoy that same feeling. That it’s the sense of accomplishment, it’s the knowing that you did something good for somebody who needed it, you know? Whether it’s in a professional capacity or whatnot, even.
J.P. Cahalan (36:43)
Bye now.
There you go.
Ernesto Martinez (36:52)
know, if it sustains a business, there’s people’s livelihoods at stake. It feels good. ⁓ I still get to enjoy that. But yeah, that was a few decades ago.
J.P. Cahalan (37:04)
man. I hope everybody has that feeling because you talk about that younger generation and what they’re coming in for and what they want. like 34 years later, you get that same feeling. I think that’s what everybody’s hunting down. Like, You said, I helped keep these people that I helped up time. I helped this business. I helped the livelihood like.
These aren’t just words. These are actual real things. have. Go ahead. Go ahead.
Ernesto Martinez (37:25)
You know, the younger
generation that you mentioned, know, they have so much available to them that we didn’t have, you know, we needed help. You’d better had a pocket full of quarters and go down to a phone booth on a corner. we didn’t, I mean, this is pre-Pager days. You know, I don’t even know what Pagers are, but you were on your own. And if you didn’t have a legible schematic, you were in trouble.
J.P. Cahalan (37:34)
Mm-hmm.
And a payphone,
Yeah.
Ernesto Martinez (37:53)
You know, the berating didn’t help either. But a younger generation now has access to, I mean, really a wealth of knowledge. And you talk about your expressions about how I’m saying these things. You know, there’s a lot of great guys across all these industries that are, you know, social media platforms talking about that fulfillment, talking about utilizing resources. And I think that’s a good thing. ⁓ don’t I don’t live on my phone with social medias, but but when I
When I do, they’re primarily tailored to the trades. Yeah, I see you, bud. ⁓ I do like to see ⁓ the gentlemen out there who are promoting the trades, the older gentlemen with what, in my opinion, a really great mindset. They have such a strong passion for passing the torch, sharing their knowledge. And I think young people have a library, you know, they’ve got a, you know,
Egypt’s Alexandria Library that it’s not going to burn down. It’s not going to burn down. It’s going to be always accessible. There’s a lot of, you know, I think these generational gaps and bias for those who want fulfillment, you know,
They get to approach the trades in a different way that we ever did. They want fulfillment. They want satisfaction knowing that they can be in the trades and essentially create problem solving skills. can hone in their technical research abilities because all of that is necessary. And they get to essentially excite their senses and
J.P. Cahalan (39:23)
Yeah.
Ernesto Martinez (39:28)
really stimulate the things that get their juices going up in their minds. You can do that in the trades and with the accessibility that they have now. It’s pretty beautiful. I mean, we can go off tangent, talk about the ills and pros and cons of technology, but when it’s used correctly, I think the younger generation has definitely an accelerated path to learning that we didn’t have. And that’s a good thing. And if there’s old timers that can be a part of that, then that’s
J.P. Cahalan (39:39)
I did.
Ernesto Martinez (39:56)
beautifully bridging those gaps and creating some bonds between the cultures and the generations, in my opinion.
J.P. Cahalan (40:02)
I’m
in complete agreement with you. As you were talking, I was thinking about a message to that younger generation. You join in a fraternity and sorority of problem solvers who keep the lights on and keep the air moving. It’s a very powerful thing to say to allow livelihoods to be impacted by that. You talked about technology. As we think about all the things that have come out,
Now you can learn anything and everything. As you think about technology today and the younger generation and the older generation, what do they expect from a contractor that they are employed by in regards to technology? Is there an expectation that
you are getting tools that reduce micromanagement that allow for that empowerment and things like that and allow you to work seamlessly. Has that been a topic? mean, you talked about your apprentice program that you guys have. Do you guys touch on those types of things? Do you hear it? What are your thoughts there?
Ernesto Martinez (40:58)
So I will say this. ⁓ Within HUNTN or without outside, our organization, those walls are our service market area. To the younger people who are looking to get into the trades, it’s exciting to be in the trades. ⁓ And this is not to smear any organization that, young organization financially not ready for that type of tooling to provide.
J.P. Cahalan (41:09)
Mm-hmm.
Ernesto Martinez (41:25)
excluding those individuals, those who choose not to to execute that because there’s an older mindset for those. you’re interviewing and they don’t and they’re not offering that and it has nothing to do with a budgetary constraint, keep looking. There’s there’s other organizations out there. ⁓ That’s that’s my personal opinion on the matter Keep in mind that they are tools. You can use a hammer the wrong way and
If they’re not used correctly, then they don’t really do you any good. But essentially, if we look at a pre and a during post type of technological tools that we lost a lot of time, you know, searching for job histories and manuals. ⁓ There was always frequent phone calls to the office trying to get information.
There was trial and error diagnostics, increased callbacks due to missed details. The paperwork was at the end of the day not getting paid for. Adopting technology into streamlining a lot of those processes, you’ve got instant access to job history, the equipment data, the details of the previous technician. You’ve got digital checklist that
J.P. Cahalan (42:33)
Mm-hmm.
Ernesto Martinez (42:38)
streamline your process so you don’t skip any of the diagnostics. You’re reducing errors in that way. There was improved communication through photos and videos like your platform, XOI. I preach that ⁓ to the heavens. ⁓ Real-time parts look up. Things of that nature and automated reporting, those things are available to us.
J.P. Cahalan (42:41)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ernesto Martinez (43:06)
And they
streamline our processes. And we live in a time where, you know, financially organizations are, they’re holding onto their purse strings and rightly so, they should. But we have ways of giving those individuals that warm, fuzzy feeling that they’re not going to make a mistake.
when they choose an organization that can streamline their processes in order to minimize errors, you know, to shorten the amount of time of service calls, which shortens the time of the bill.
J.P. Cahalan (43:29)
Yeah.
Ernesto Martinez (43:34)
getting the buy-in for a partnership between you and your customer base is huge when they trust you. When they trust you, they’re going to call you back. We’re in Houston. HVAC is throw a rock. You’re going to hit a company. You’re going to hit one.
J.P. Cahalan (43:40)
Yeah.
Yeah
Ernesto Martinez (43:51)
And
it’s more important when your service is so good. These guys are coming and dropping off business cards. And when you’re not there, they’re looking for your customers too. And there’s 10 of them and they’re at the front door and they’re bringing donuts and they’re bringing kolaches. And it’s nice and they got a stack of these business cards and they never look at them because they trust you. It’s a big deal. That’s a huge testament. And when you use your tools the right way,
J.P. Cahalan (44:15)
That’s big deal.
Ernesto Martinez (44:18)
That’s the relationship building that you’re able to use. We’re not talking about use all your smart tools to do your thinking for you. We mean use your smart tools smartly so you can lock down and secure your business.
J.P. Cahalan (44:28)
Yeah.
No, that’s a great, absolutely great way to look at it. I’m going to ask you a question. We talked about kind of technicians being empowered and kind of that’s a film element and kind of allowing that to happen.
They want to feel empowered, like what they believe and say actually gets doesn’t have to be implemented, but at least considered and discussed and talked about. And maybe it’s you solved it a different way, but the problem is still that solve. That’s the that’s the thing about like, you know, we think about what keeps people
Ernesto Martinez (44:54)
Mm-hmm.
J.P. Cahalan (44:59)
at a company, what keeps them in the trades, there is an element of a technician is on an island. Like most technicians are working alone a majority of the time. And so when you have that, you got to be able to allow them to be heard, to have the right tools, to have the right things and to have a company behind them that’s saying,
Whatever you need, gonna give it. We know you’re out there alone. We’re gonna try and help out. When you think about kind of trying to recruit a younger person into the trades today.
What are you going to tell them? What are you going to tell them to look for in a potential employer? And I know you’ve roundabout answered this in kind of the conversation that we have, but if I took you and said, hey, Ernie, you got three, can’t go over three, what are the top three things you’re going to tell that young lady or young man to be looking for in a potential employer?
Ernesto Martinez (45:52)
First of all, I would highly promote them to look for an organization that has a high retention rate. And in the world of Google searches these days and AI, that information is not hard to find. And it’s right there. It’s very exposing, right? I mean, you better not stink at what you do because it’s going to expose it. ⁓ And if it does, that’s where you start fixing things.
J.P. Cahalan (46:08)
It’s right there.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ernesto Martinez (46:21)
I’ll say that. So for young people, look at organizations that have a high retention rate. Then question why is there a high retention rate? If the high retention rate is money, I don’t trust the report. People aren’t looking for just money these days. I’ve always said, and I think you’ve heard me say it, John, a time or three, ⁓ none of us were born with silver spoons in our mouths. ⁓ So we have to come work for a living. But just because we have to come work for a living doesn’t mean we have to be miserable.
You can do these things and enjoy it. You can go to work and enjoy work. Look for organizations that have people that enjoy their work. I saw something, it was on LinkedIn. I shared it with our CEO, Richard Hunting Jr. It talked about a, it’s kind of like a, I don’t know if it was a gif or if it was a real picture on a wall, but it had spoken about company cultures. They’re not just words on a wall.
They’re how you feel Sunday night before you go to work. And it struck such a chord with me. I don’t even know who coined that phrase, but whoever did, they’re spot on. ⁓ That doesn’t mean you’re in a hurry to leave home to go to work because home’s not good. What it means is that you’re not dreading Monday morning. And that’s a big deal because it’s never really the workload, it’s the environment. It’s who you work with. It’s who you work for.
J.P. Cahalan (47:19)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Ernesto Martinez (47:42)
It’s the supportive team that you’re around. And if you can do that, then you’re not really just coining phrases. You’re living a real culture. And here at HUNTAIN, I love that. I love that. That’s our real day to day. So I would encourage young people, do your homework. It’s worth it. Two, the trades. The trades are highly fulfilling. ⁓ My son, he’s in New York now, John. It’s been a while since we spoke, but he’s in New York. ⁓
J.P. Cahalan (48:08)
Yeah, I did.
Ernesto Martinez (48:10)
Obviously, I’m gonna make jabs trades make jabs at each other and it’s all lighthearted fun. He wanted to be electrician I’m like, oh you’re breaking my heart, you know It’s a matter with you. He’s like, oh he somebody’s of mine, you know, they they took and he’s like, I want to be a plumber. I’m like, oh, they’re the worst and you know, I just I was just taking pot shot jabs because all of my buddies are like trying to steal my son from me and You know what he did and I paid for his electric
J.P. Cahalan (48:31)
Of course!
Ernesto Martinez (48:37)
horses and he’s in New York now. What is he doing? Chillers, boilers, air handlers. And he took a picture. He was working on a UCCA climate changer air handler. And he, and he, he, ⁓ took a picture of, can see the train chiller behind me and he, and he sent it to me and he says, look, I’m basically hunting now. And I, I said, uh-huh, look at you now kid. ⁓ totally awesome. And, and he said, he said, you know, I got
J.P. Cahalan (49:02)
You’re getting there.
Ernesto Martinez (49:06)
I got to admit, I kind of like it. ⁓ So, kind of as a proud dad moment.
J.P. Cahalan (49:13)
my gosh.
Ernesto Martinez (49:13)
⁓
So, ultimately, young people look at, too, find fulfillment in what you do. You don’t have to be miserable at work. So, find something that you can enjoy doing. Feel like, you know, something that you can feel like you’re contributing to. One of the greatest things you can do is be of service to somebody. ⁓ The trades are service work. You’re serving somebody. And if you serve someone well, they appreciate you. And when they appreciate you, that’s a beautiful gift. To be compensated for that,
Well, it’s a bonus. ⁓ But if you can do that and you can look at the greater good that you can do to help people, especially when they’re in need, that’s a beautiful fulfillment. mean, what a what a it’s an amazing sentiment to hear someone’s heartfelt appreciation. And the trades have had a bad rap for a long time. We’re talking about licenses to steal. Right. I mean, what a bad rap and the ability to be a part of an honest organization, a reputable organization.
a trustworthy organization that is steering and riding the ship and going back toward a reputation that you can be proud of that has dignity and honor. We have the opportunity to do that on a very individual basis, and that’s very nice. that’s plug number two. Plug number three would be look for the proper support groups within your
skilled trade of interest because they’re out there. Don’t look for the shortcut guys. Look for the guys that do things the right way. There are no shortcuts. They’re fast-tracked, but there’s no shortcuts. Shortcuts get you in trouble. ⁓ If you can find those support groups, you’re going to find that there’s a lot of satisfaction in working with a good group of people that can support you and really be your
your cheerleader and drive you on in a skilled trades. You get to do all that without, you know, essentially ⁓ college ⁓ bills that amass to a mortgage. You know, you’re paying for a mortgage essentially in a house that you’re not living in. So you get to get out there and make some real earning potential while you’re learning. And I think those are my top three.
J.P. Cahalan (51:13)
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
So.
I think they’re great. I think they are, you when you think about it, just to, you know, what I’m hearing is do your homework and in regards to the retention, because what you’re, if you see that people are staying, it means there is that potential employer or there’s an employer that is doing the right things, giving the right tools, doing the right stuff. I hear from the fulfillment side, it’s find an organization, look for an organization technicians want.
to have that purpose, to feel that purpose, to have that autonomy, that empowerment, make sure that’s there. And then the support goes back to the tools in my opinion. It’s that ability to be able to say, hey, it’s not just the people, it’s not just that element of like, hey, is it the right people who are there to help solve the problems and listen and do all that? But it’s, hey, we’re investing in our people. And that could be in, you know, people not taking the shortcuts and making sure you learn the right way and all that stuff. But it also could be, hey,
Let’s allow people to have ingenuity. Let’s allow them to try and solve problems that are not the traditional let’s go fix this, but a process driven problem. Dude, this this conversation has been exactly what I’ve wanted it to be. You are the perfect person to have it with. And so I want to thank you for that. I know we ran long. That’s on me. I always do this thing, but Ernie, I want to thank you so much for being a part of this and to everybody out there that’s listening. I meant it when I said it like,
There are certain people that view the world in very unique ways and very with a ton of openness. This guy leads the charge on that. And he has since I met him from day one. I know I’m plugging you right now and all those things, but like if you get a chance to cross paths with him or just even pick his brain on stuff, I highly encourage it you do it. So to my friend, thank you so much. I appreciate it. It’s been a great conversation.
Ernesto Martinez (53:07)
John, thank you so much my friend. It’s always good catching up with you. Wish you and the family well.
J.P. Cahalan (53:11)
Same back to you, buddy. You take care.
Ernesto Martinez (53:13)
All right, bye bye.
